first you know when did you guys start having an interest in programming what about when did you get interested in programming never okay weird I just did it just kind of is that actually true I mean yeah it is because, I actually don't know to be honest like, for me it was more like I need to do something I need to get a proper job and then I just like I guess I could do it interesting I could do programming because everyone else in my family does programming like all my siblings do programming I was like I want to be a musician and then like when I realized like, maybe not and I'm gonna be a photographer and then like ah I'll just get a proper job yeah yeah so that's weird yeah and that's the same thing game development like I want to make games how do I make games you need to program okay I guess I'll learn how to program like that's that's pretty much it for me yeah yeah what about you I started learning game programming when I was like 19 like that's when I started actual program but before that I did a bunch of, self-taught web development, started off making, you know pokemon and dragon ball z fan sites hand coding and yeah hand coding html in notepad those are the days I even remember I took a c plus course in upper secondary school and I flunked it because I didn't I hated it so much really yeah and and I was like 19 at that time too so or no you're like 17 when you're in, yeah 17 something like that yeah 17 years old yep