so wait, how did you get into game development publishing, I started with, making my own games in like, game maker I think was the first one, and then I started to learn some c sharp and do stuff in xna if you remember enough hell yeah love xna xna man that's good good and then I started to play around with the unity, and at the time that was my I think my first time I started doing like stuff with 3d art so I realized that that was like where I probably, will will have most fun because it was a perfect fit like a mix of tech and art I think like doing 3d stuff, so yeah I studied 3d art and then I did the internship and worked in triple a triple a boy wow he was on the division right well yeah yeah I was half sure it must have been right because I knew it was starting you knew it started with d yeah you were working okay also yeah that was my first, game oh wow imagine that being your first game that's crazy that's that's yeah that's great it's kind of crazy like my I started as an intern and- I think like I got a couple of tasks to polish some textures and then a couple of weeks later that was like the first thing that they showed on on the playstation 4. really nice that's crazy that was a pretty epic moment for a intern yeah I bet I bet oh that's crazy that would actually be so cool